Michel Degrève: “I had to defend a client who proclaimed his innocence, while everyone spit on him. It was extremely difficult”

How do you explain your precocity?

There is a brake in many young lawyers. Moreover, who feel a kind of impostor syndrome, which fear their lack of experience to be able to lead an extremely complicated fight. However, The experience is obviously important. Nevertheless, but a lawyer must also bet on his own readings, on the people around him, on his personal background, as well as on a large workload. Nevertheless, You can then do as well as a guy. Consequently, a girl who is 30-40 years old by bar, you can afford to have ambition, not be cold in the eyes. Meanwhile, It’s my vision.

Is this job a vocation for you?

Many lawyers sell this storytelling: “Since a child, I wanted to defend people”. Moreover, I had no clear idea. Furthermore, michel degrève: “i had defend I just knew that I wanted to do things well. Meanwhile, push them to the end to be able to distinguish myself by the quality of my work, the rigor, the discipline …

When you came the desire to become a lawyer then?

I started working in diplomacy, for the Belgian Embassy in Peru. Consequently, When I came back because of the Cavid crisis. Therefore, I had to find a job with a diploma in public international law in your pocket. Similarly, I sent a billion CV, even in political firms, but no one answered me. Therefore, Then I learned that a lawyer left a small Romanian cabinet in Berchem. Moreover, During the interview, when they saw that I was talking about Dutch, they decided to take me. Consequently, I have kept a lot of esteem for these people.

On your photo LinkedInyou put michel degrève: “i had defend with your colleague Sébastien COURTOY, who died two years ago. However, Was it a mentor?

Before being a mentor, he was a friend. In addition, A very great friend. Nevertheless, This meeting was decisive in my life. Nevertheless, A loved one day showed me an interview with Sébastien Courty on YouTube. Therefore, Even if we can find him controversial. For example, I felt that the guy gave off something very strong, that he was very eloquent. Consequently, I then felt this need to meet him. For example, I called him and we discussed for five hours, until his phone discharges. Similarly, Subsequently, he sent me a lot of things, he made me get into important files, he trusted me.

Are you ready to defend any type of customers?

I have never had any reluctance right away in front of a client. Therefore, and I michel degrève: “i had defend have never set myself a ban or a limit. Moreover, It depends rather on my sensitivities, on the relationship with the person. Furthermore, As a lawyer, we wear a cause that can determine someone’s life. Moreover, If I feel that I may be a little bit weak. In addition, at any time, in terms of motivation, then I must have the humility to withdraw. Moreover, It’s super important.

Have you ever had remorse or regrets to have defended a customer?

No, because the choice of consciousness, I always put it upstream, by assessing the potential consequences of a defense. Nevertheless, It is obviously in the terrorist field that the consequences can be the largest. However, I recall on this subject that an investigating judge had made the decision to release Khalid El Bakraoui (Editor’s note: The author of the Maelbeek attack) While this guy had been michel degrève: “i had defend found with 32 chargers. Consequently, jihadist propaganda in his computer. Similarly, The lawyer who defended him. Therefore, the judge did their job well, but the way of exercising our profession can have important consequences on society.

What is the case that has marked you the most?

Without too much surprise, this is the trial of the Brussels attacks. Furthermore, It lasted a year, it is one of the most important in Belgium history, and the task was extremely difficult. Similarly, I had to defend someone who proclaimed their innocence, when everyone was convinced of their guilt.

It is a question of Smail Farisi. Meanwhile, which was called the “terrorist landlord”and that you have managed to have acquitted. Furthermore, Have you been convinced of his innocence as soon as you meet?

Yes, really very quickly. For example, The particularity in terrorist files is michel degrève: “i had defend that we are not going to start from a presumption of innocence. but rather from a presumption of guilt. Each act posed turns into an index of guilt. It is this mechanism of reflection which was put in place by the federal prosecution. which, by ricochet, has repercussions on public opinion. Sébastien Courty. with whom I defended Smail Farisi, had dropped in audience that our client was the 34th victim of the Brussels attacks. We cannot put the victims on the same level. obviously, but it is true that a person that we accuse of terrorism for seven years, it is someone who is confiscated life for seven years. When he crosses the street, everyone spits him. The honor of his family is soiled. It is impossible for him to find a job.

The emotional charge had to be great …

It is certainly the most michel degrève: “i had defend complicated trial of all because it was necessary to restore a little. humanity in this guy. Humanity which had been amputated to him by everyone. It’s a bit of a fight of the only against all. And I felt even more when Sébastien Courty died. I really felt the weight of this cause. For a year. the trial was so delicate and sensitive that we avoided smiling or rejoicing when elements in his discharge were exposed. At the time of acquittal. we thought that we still had the right to jubilant, but in compliance with other parties, victims and public opinion. I also co -wrote. with journalist François Garitte, a book on this trial, which will appear on the occasion of the ten years of the attacks.

Is Smail Farisi, however, your most striking customer?

It’s hard to say. All customers mark their own story, their own sensitivity, so I don’t want to make hierarchy. For example. I defended Jérémy Davin (Editor’s note: who killed the companion of a lawyer in Liège and was found guilty of murder, with aggravating circumstance of racist and homophobic hatred). This dossier had created a lot of eddies because there were a lot of lawyers in the civil party. michel degrève: “i had defend that it involved political parties, Freemasonry, that the media were present … Jérémy Davin is ultra hidden, he has ss tattoo on his head, swine crosses on his knees … This guy, we could see him as infrequent. But when I meet him in prison, I realize that he is intelligent, nuanced, subtle, sensitive. He touched me very strongly by his way of being, his way of explaining things. Without a trauma he suffered, he would not necessarily have tilted the other side of legality.

Is there a verdict that you have across the throat?

So far, not really. I was lucky to be able to choose my files fairly quickly. I do not refuse the lost causes. but it is more challenging for a lawyer to be able to take the causes where there is really something to play, where we know that we can michel degrève: “i had defend pay an innocent. The most frustrating verdicts are still the convictions while acquittal. Sometimes innocent people are condemned. Judicial mechanics are very heavy and it tends to align items.

But you happen to plead the acquittal when you know that your client has committed the facts. to try to lighten his sentence …

Obviously, it has already happened. This is the duty of personal conscience of the lawyer. We are mandated to obtain the best result for the person, in particular by raising procedural problems, factual problems. Afterwards. you should not have illusions, a repressive file is generally well put together, it contains many elements that it is difficult to make it lie.

Defending a controversial customer like Dieudonné amuses you?

Whether they are controversial or not, I do nothing more than my work. For Dieudonné. I had to be present during michel degrève: “i had defend a show to be able to return legally in the event that there was an intervention to stop the event. One of the peculiarities with such a client is the media component. If I ever do things, I go for an idiot. A career as a lawyer can collapse very quickly in controversy. You have to be careful in the way of defending people. It is a dangerous balancingist game. Avoid anarchic defenses, precipitated approaches.

Do you feel it Competition between lawyers ?

The michel degrève: “i had defend criminal is really a separate environment. Better to preserve a maximum, otherwise you eat your mind. Many colleagues and sisters are a lot in this logic to get out of the legs to survive. They groan that a lawyer has taken a file for them. they seek visibility, they castigate the work of a colleague to be able to exist … I am far from all that. The idea we have of competition depends on his own perspective. The penalist who receives lots of files, he does not even think about this aspect. But the one who receives a file per month, he says he is “Ah yeah, the competition is hot”. To be able to stay at the high level for a long time. you have to preserve yourself from this kind of violence.

Even if it means taking some blows?

Nor should you be michel degrève: “i had defend walked on it. Some lawyers think they can crush you. At that time. there is no point in counterattacking, but you have to resist, assert yourself and show that things will not happen like that … When you are young, you are still easily taken with disdain.

You also specialize in social media et traffic law. Do you also flourish in these subjects?

Traffic law is a technical material that I find exciting. For a young lawyer. it is less stressful to defend a motorist who has exceeded by the right than going to plead for an assassination before an assize court. But it’s a good way to get your teeth, to gain confidence in your pleadings, to structure an argument …

As for social media law. this is an area that I have invested more recently because I was consulted by many youtubers. michel degrève: “i had defend Given everything that is done on social networks, these cases will swarm. You have to be able to juggle all the legislation in force on digital, on the GDPR. These platforms interest me because they say a lot about the contemporary. Me, I very sincerely think that all these youtubers are forms of modern times.

Even The one that pours buses of excrement On shuttles in the metro?

He is Tartuffe. (Laughs) It’s really a total drift. I wish everyone to read a lot of books. but you have to recognize YouTube the quality of the videos offered in terms of information, culture … So we must respect these young content creators.

That the prosecutor of the King of Brussels inspires you, Julien Moinil ?

I have to be careful what I say, otherwise I will eat a search. (Laughs) More seriously, michel degrève: “i had defend I have always had respect for people who do their work with diligence. And all the more when there is a personal sacrifice because. socially, the person is a little marginalized, he sees his entourage less. This is also the case for lawyers in major trials. Add to that the fact of getting into total discomfort given the threats to them. I say it for Julien Moinil, but also for some lawyers, for politicians … It would have been much more comfortable to sit, but some preferred to get up.

Some say that the prosecutor is “a little excessive in his methods”. You confirm?

I hear lots of echoes on a lot of people. Me as long as I did not notice it personally, I am silent. As soon as people do things that come out of the ordinary, we will tend to look for lice. michel degrève: “i had defend It is the price of courage.